Listen to learn to how a team can help support your cybersecurity journey and strides being made at Breaking Barriers.
"One thing that I learned from the circle was how to come out of my comfort zone and tell my story to other people. When it comes to something technical, I can talk for hours, but apart from that it's very hard for me. So this was one take away for me, apart from all the learnings - both technical and non-technical - that really helped me a lot."
Making your way in cybersecurity is easier if you have a team supporting you. Aastha Sahni (Lead CyberSecurity Instructor at Flatiron School | Founder & Global Lead at Breaking Barriers Lean in Circle), Shrutirupa Banerjiee (Web Application Security Analyst | Tech Lead at Breaking Barriers Lean in Circle), and Saman Fatima (Data Engineer at Macquarie Group | Management Lead at Breaking Barriers Lean in Circle) sits down with Host and Principal Security Analyst Jen Stone (MCIS, CISSP, CISA, QSA) to discuss the work they do to invite and support others on a cybersecurity career path.
Listen to learn:
Connect with our guests:
Download our Guide to PCI Compliance! - https://www.securitymetrics.com/lp/pci/pci-guide
Download our Guide to HIPAA Compliance! - https://www.securitymetrics.com/lp/hipaa/hipaa-guide
[Disclaimer] Before implementing any policies or procedures you hear about on this or any other episodes, make sure to talk to your legal department, IT department, and any other department assisting with your data security and compliance efforts.
Hello, and welcome back to the SecurityMetrics podcast. I'm Jen Stone. I'm a principal security analyst here at SecurityMetrics. I'm very excited about this topic today.
We we've been talking, quite a bit in in the last few episodes about careers, about how you, get into cybersecurity. It's a very important thing right now, particularly because we don't have enough people in cybersecurity. We need more people. And one of the ways that we can bring more people in is to seek out people who haven't maybe historically been so much in cybersecurity.
And one group of is women.
And I have a group of women here today who are gonna talk about their group and how they help bring other women into cybersecurity. I love the idea because as women, sometimes we need kind of a we need a network. We need a group. We need, people that we can talk to about how we feel about things and how we approach things, and it's one of the ways that we problem solve and become more successful.
So I want to introduce them to you before we get started, starting with Aastha Sahni, lead cybersecurity instructor at Flatiron School, founder and global lead, Breaking Barriers Lean in Circle. Aastha is a competent cybersecurity professional with five plus years of experience in the industry. Her areas of expertise are identity and access management, application security, and security information security management, so SIM. Since the start of her career, she's donned many hats.
From being a consultant to engineer and now an instructor, she is a strong advocate of bringing diversity inclusion to the workplace. To promote women professionals in the industry, she aims to help in provisioning a continuous cybersecurity learning experience to women throughout their careers. She's the founder of Cyberpreserve and Breaking Barriers Women in Cybersecurity Lean and Circle and has been part of communities such as OWASP and Infosec Girls.
Also with us, we have Shrutirupa Banerjiee, web application security analyst and tech lead at Breaking Barriers Lean and Circle. Shruti is an experienced security enthusiast with over three years of demonstrated skills in penetration testing and vulnerability assessment of applications, web and mobile, and NetVRk's blockchain based smart con contracts currently working under WAF research at Qualys.
Currently, she's one of the leads for Breaking Barriers Women in Cybersecurity Lean in Circle along with being one of the mentors for the cyber's preserve community. She's been one of the leads for Infosec Girls and Women Who Code and Pune. She's also an active technical blogger at, shruthirupa dot m e, and I'll try and get all of these links for everyone who wants to to connect with them, after the show. She's been a speaker and trainer at various conferences like b sides Singapore.
Jealous.
OWASP, Seasides, Rudolf, Pune oh, Pune. Sorry. I kind of, read that wrong the first time. And Cypher, TechnoDay, and various local and virtual meetups. She loves to play CTFs and aspires to become a reverse engineer and malware analyst in the future. So our third, participant today is Saman Fatima, data engineer at Macquarie Group, management lead at Breaking Barriers Lean in Circle. Saman Fatima is a data engineer at Macquarie Group with four plus years of comprehensive experience in software development and cybersecurity.
Trained in identity and access management, she has always been a cybersecurity enthusiast and is an active member of a lot of cyber communities, co lead for the Lean and Circle breaking barriers women in security, committee member at OWASP women in APSEC, instructor at cyber preserve community, member at women cyber security, WESIS India, and CyberXR.
And, she started her career in early two thousand seventeen with TCS on Gartner's tool, SailPoint, and entered into the world of cybersecurity, XDelhi chapter lead for Infosec Girls and then being part of many communities, she's come a long way to being a data engineer with Macquarie Group. She loves to learn and grow in the cybersecurity field and has been a speaker at conferences like TechnoDay twenty twenty one, the Hackers Meetup, and various local and virtual meetups. Thank you, all three of you, for being here. I'm so very excited, to talk to you.
Aastha, I wanna start with you. Tell me what's going on in in your world, what you're trying to accomplish, why you're here to talk to us today.
Thank you so much, Jen.
So I would be talking about our leaning circle, breaking barriers, women in cybersecurity.
We actually started off this circle early this year with a vision that we are doing a lot to get along with. We are basically teach women about STEM courses, how they can pursue STEM as a career, and then cybersecurity also as a career. And many other communities have been trying their best to get in more women in cybersecurity. But the question arises about what about the women who are already part of the industry, Who are already spent some time and who seek some kind of support, some kind of network, some kind of upscaling all the time? Because since you are in the industry, definitely, you would like to go up in the ladder of leadership. So we started off with the circle with the vision of bringing women and, like, not only into cybersecurity, but to encourage them so that they can aspire for leadership roles in the area of cybersecurity.
Our circle is about not only providing them a technical level of training in the area of cyber, but also overall personality development. Because when you look yourself, like, you envision yourself as a leader, at that moment, you are not of not only a technical person. You are an overall person who has grown in all sales life. How we can help women who have, let's let's say, who have taken a break in their career, someone who is starting off their career, someone who wants to switch their career in cybersecurity into a different domain.
So how we can support them with the help of, let's say, industry based collaboration, university based collaboration, bringing scholarships, bringing a strong network of women whom they cannot only rely, like, rely for professional network, but for personal network as well. So at the end of the day, if you want to have a hangout session by the end of the month or a week, you can just ask us. Like, let's have a hang, and I want to talk about something which happened at work. I want to talk about something which I'm thinking about my career, and I want to hear what I can do.
And how someone can take support from the, circle in the form of, let's say, references, in the form of, let's say, getting some training, not just mentorship, but getting some time to time training in the various areas. Is is that is is something that our circle really focuses on, like, how to build leaders, women leaders in cybersecurity so that becoming a leader, a women leader, is not a muse, just as normal as anybody else.
That's great. And so, I like the idea of the the circle of of women supporting each other because a lot of times, I'll get people to reach out and ask me, you know, can you be my mentor? And I don't know that the mentorship, focus is it's good to get advice from someone who has gone before, but I think it's even more important for women to to be able to talk about how they feel about certain situations, get advice from people who have been in similar situations. But like you said, the networking possibilities are really high when you have a group of people together rather than just a one on one.
That's true. That's hundred percent true because you can be part of a Slack channel. You you might have joined many Slack channels, but how many people do you really interact in a live manner? We meet monthly.
We try our best that we reach each and every member on monthly basis. We try to keep our flat conversations as organic as possible. We try to bring opportunities, not just the stake for it. Like, if somebody has come to our circle, they just have to look for specific channels, and from there, they can connect with something.
We we try to bring that conversation in the most organic manner. We are we have also started off with orientation. So let's say somebody is joining us on, let's say, in a specific month, what we try to do is we try to give, real time orientation to people who are joining us. So let's say a couple of members have joined us for a month.
So we'll schedule an orientation. Let them know what we have been doing till now, how they can become an active part of the circle, whom to reach out for specific conversation, specific scenario so that it it seems more organic, it seems more live. And we have been doing a lot more in terms of, like, like, community development, academic, and research. And I think Shruti and Saman would be the best people to talk about it.
Like, Saman would definitely cover a good sense of community development that we are doing.
Oh, excellent. Saman, what can you tell us about community development?
Before, actually, giving out information on community and development and how we're exceeding on that, Jen, thank you so much for the amazing introduction we had, and I'm really happy to see us here. So on the grounds what Astha has already covered about the circle, we know that what a community can bring to an individual, how a community can groom a particular individual. And it's not just the internships or the conferences you go out to. It's more of how you come out as a person, and you actually network with a lot of like minded people. And, you know, you try to get into their circles, know more about those topics and stuff. So in those areas as well, we are spread across multiple platforms.
So we are active on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and we're also doing a lot of sessions on Clubhouse as well. That's the new, platform has been to discuss a lot about things about. So talking about LinkedIn and Twitter, we, give a lot of shout outs to people, to our circle members who are actually involved in a lot of spaces. Like, they're speaking somewhere.
They are nominated in an award. They won an award. And what are, like, small meetups, big meetups. We just cover everything so that it gives them a push.
They're more visible. They get that thing that how a community can work. And Instagram, we usually have a lot of posts about our recent events, talking more about the barriers we want to bring up on the space, talking more about it, making it more visual. We have an amazing team which works on the write up, on the posters, and how we market ourselves, how we bring out those things so that it becomes more genuine, more connected to what we wanna bring out.
And the last part is the clubhouse one, where we try to push in, you know, both of the sections that we wanna bring out more cyber awareness sessions. People should know because Internet is the new world. People actually should know what Internet can do, how they are actually, you know, tangled there, so they have to be more aware. And also talking about a lot of awareness topics as well, like barriers at workplace.
And, you know, recently, we did an amazing session on imposter syndrome, talking about all these generic topics as well so that people become more used to that. It's not just cyber we are talking about, but it's the entire personality and all the things we talk about. And, you know, you can be more you know, I would like to say that we get out that safe space that people can come and actually talk about and discuss more about their, you know, journeys. And it can help others as well.
Like, you never know how your experience and journey can inspire others and help them to go a little upwards in the ladder. So that's what we do across certain platforms to, you know, make us more connected to people.
Oh, excellent. So you're really, not just, helping people sort through issues and challenges, but you're also really expanding their voice, expanding their reach.
People get to know more about the the successes and knowledge and experience of the people in the group. So it potentially helps them with, maybe their career path and potential, work, opportunities.
Right? Well That's true. Shruti, I would love to hear what you do, as part of this group and and your experience there.
Okay. So as someone and Ashta explained it very well, one thing that we have the three of us have in common before starting or thinking of, breaking barriers women in cybersecurity was covering both the technical and the nontechnical aspect. And when we are together, learning as one kind of exploration in our lives. Like, we get very excited when any new kind of topic or research comes into picture, and we just discuss about it. Like, we gossip about the recent topics and the researches that are happening around.
So this was one core thing. Like, that is something which comes from the center of our heart that we wanted to have an academic and research part where people like us, like minded people, like minded women could join us and they can do their research. They can choose their topics of interest. We can choose some people who are some women who have done their PhD or have some experience in the research area. So we all can together discuss some sections of different sec domains of cybersecurity where we all can do some research. Maybe we can write a topic, I mean, a research paper, or we can do some other kind of discussion on the same. So that is one core interest that we all have, and we focus along with having the nontechnical aspect, in our circle.
Okay. So so this sounds like an amazing group to be part of. What what does it cost, and where do you have to live?
So what does it cost? So it costs nothing. Mhmm. So our circle is completely free, and anybody can join us.
And one thing that I would like to add in addition to what Shruti and Saman said, that you you can be anywhere in the world. You can be in Asia. You can be in Africa. It's it's just, like, the time zone can be a problem for people who might be in in, let's say, at the more pacific side of Asia, like Australia and New Zealand.
So them becoming part of meetups can become tough because, time matching can be different, but they can still become part of our circle. We we are, like, trying our hard to, let's say, in future hold two meetups. Especially, like, if we are holding one meetup in a month, we are ready to, like, hold two meetups where we can get in as well. We can set up meetup timing at different different timings and at different different places as well so that we can incorporate, different continents across the world.
And one important thing as Shruti was saying, like, we are passionate about learning. And in cyber, learning is so continuous. It's it's it's not limited to your day to day job. There is so much things, so many attacks, so many areas which are coming and evolving every day.
You want to be key like, you want to be on track. And while you think about it, then the impostor syndrome sink in. Like, you'll be like, oh, I don't know anything. And then how to go about, how to move forward.
That is something we are trying to bridge gaps. And the second thing is, that I have often seen, like, coming from India is we aspire to go to international conferences. Like, when I was twenty five, I used to, like, see women visiting conferences across the world. And when I was not in US, I used to think, like, how to go?
Like, how should I manage my finances? Yeah. And even if I go, like, whether I would be welcomed Mhmm. Will somebody help me?
And there are more people like me who want to go. So this is something which we thought, we envisioned, and through our circle, we are continuously trying to create awareness about what type of conference you can participate online as the world open up. And I see, like, in the next next year or the following year, there would be more in person conferences.
How we can help women from all types of, like, developing and developed countries, make them aware about how you can travel.
How you can grouping from the country you are living in with the people. You can book tickets together. You can come. As a circle, we are planning to register our circle as nonprofit very soon as the new year comes.
Officially, by God's grace, we would be a registered nonprofit circle. And through that, we are definitely trying to get more funds, not just to scale our community, but also to give that funded money to the women who want to study. So maybe let's say, not okay. So we might not be so big in the next year that we can fund for someone this is based, but we can actually fund them, like, if we do, we put in scholarships about certifications, scholarship about graduate programs.
So even though it can be a small amount, we want to contribute towards their learning and development. If we can help somebody, if, like, through their capabilities, if they could if they can be shortlisted at a conference, we would work hard to get them here. Even if they're coming from India, even if they're coming from Africa, they don't know how to apply for scholarships. So it's like bridging those gaps.
That sounds like some real value for for free.
It sounds like, you your expectation is that people actively participate in the conversations and actively participate in the meetups and really be there for the other people who who are looking for that. I love what what you, have said about, imposter syndrome because we all experience it. Everyone experiences it. Not everyone talks about it.
Imposter syndrome is really something that hits a lot of cybersecurity people because they're the the domain of cybersecurity is so broad that you're expected to have answers for things that that perhaps, you've never encountered before. And so the the, the ability to talk to other people I remember one day walking into, a meeting with my colleagues here. I'm the only female on on a team of twenty five I I can't I don't even know how many auditors we have. And I said, who here has felt imposter syndrome?
And their looks on their faces, like, we're gonna talk about this now? But you ask women and then they talk about it. Right? So I think that understanding how how women kind of address challenges they're facing and and recognizing that having other women to talk to is a very supportive, way to learn and get through some of these things that are holding us back.
Hundred percent correct. Because I think not only we are there to support women, because we started this circle. We want to support women, but in future, we would like to support people of all diversity. Basically, the humans of fiber.
Everybody. Because as women, we have started to talk about it. Mhmm. Many other genders, they like, even men could be feeling the same.
They they do. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
And we want to and we want that to come organically. Like, it's it's it's not just like we are trying to, like, create a separate world for women. We're just promoting them, making them realize, like, this is normal, becoming a leader to aspire.
Even though, let's say, you are thirty, you are thirty five, you are forty, you are forty five, in a career like cyber, it's good to say in public, like, I'm still learning this particular area. I don't know right now, and maybe I just know this much of it, and that's interesting. I would love to learn it more.
Sometimes it's good to have a place that's safe to talk about that because sometimes we're in a in a work position where we don't want to say, I don't feel comfortable with this yet, especially if it's part of what we're expected to know.
Right? So so there's sometimes, we we kind of churn our way through activities and and knowledge and and, expectations that that maybe take us a little longer, but we would love to talk to somebody about it. Well, at the same time, maybe it doesn't feel safe in our workplace to say, hey. I I am experiencing this challenge because you need to to present yourself as a professional.
And sometimes that means in certain places, not really talking about how you feel not so good at it. Right? So what I would like to hear, Shruti, this I I recognize that this has only been around for a few months. This is very this is a new group, but what has it offered you so far?
What what benefit have you seen from it?
What benefit I would say is, one thing about me is if there is a learning, I would be there. Be it anything, like, related to cyber, if there is any kind of thing that you want to learn. So from here, one thing that I I benefited was I, first of all, made a very good, you know, an extended family out here. So my share every kind of thing, like, bullying or kind of problems that I have faced. Apart from the problems, I can share whatever is happening with me, the good things. Like, I can share with them without any hesitation, without any judgment.
So after that after a point when our circle started growing, what happened is, we already knew that we have a vision for our circle that this kind of women or these are the women who are supposed to come here and they have to share or, they have to share their journey or if they want to do something, then we are all there. But we are all out there. One thing that I learned especially from us then someone was coming out of the comfort zone and telling your story to the to the people. Once I started doing that, it benefited me a lot because it is trust me, it is very hard for me to speak.
If there is a technical topic, I can speak for hours. But apart from that, it's very difficult for me to speak, and they help me learn. I learned it from the circle, and I'm expecting the other members in our circle to, you know, get the benefits. They to get other benefits also along with these.
So this was one takeaway from my end. Apart from the all the learnings, both technical and nontechnical, this was one thing that actually helped me a lot.
That's terrific. Finding your voice in a safe place so that you can take and use that voice in other places, that's a tremendous, benefit from that. Saman, same question to you. What what is what benefit have you found from being part of this group?
Okay.
So the first benefit being part of the circle is, we together really get excited when we see somebody's talk being selected at a conference.
Somebody is going to, you know, an internship program and got selected, or somebody got a free pass somewhere. So that is something our togetherness that has actually others here really rejoice at those portions that, yes, somebody got benefited due to our circle, due to the help, like, little help which we could give them, and they took it in a positive way. That's one thing that really makes the three of us happy.
It's it's not like ten likes, twenty likes on the platform. It's it's still okay, but somebody posting that, see, I completed that certification. So that's something that gives us a greater joy. And apart from that, being part of the circle, I myself have gotten greater opportunities being, you know, closely related to a lot of people at amazing, organizations holding a lot of experience.
We three are actually pushing each other. That's there. That will be always there. We know it.
We We we are always pushing each other. But apart from that, going outside the two of them, I could meet a lot of people, and they pushed me to put in, you know, outside different places, and I could meet a lot of new people those ways. And, you know, I could participate in other different sections as well. So that's in totality.
I am in good hands.
I just wanna end it like I'm in good hands.
I am between a lot of great people. And greatness is not that that you're very big. You you are like a c level person, but no. Greatness in ways how you're pushing each other, and that's what the circle is doing to each other. So that that's the major point.
I love that because, like you said, greatness is not determined by title.
It's the quality of the people that you're around, and I love that that sense of joy that that you can gain from the the successes of the people around you and being part of that community and lifting each other up. Someone, excuse me, not someone.
Asda, what do you see for this coming year? I mean, you've had so much growth already in just a few months. What are you hoping for in twenty twenty two?
I think twenty twenty two, we have, like, great hopes and dreams. As I said, we are planning to register our circle as nonprofit.
As we do so, we are planning to, like, first of all, scale our platform. We want to make it more accessible for everybody and accessible from the point of view of, like, how to follow-up for events. Right now, we have one monthly meetup. In future, we are planning to get some, different kinds of meetings and events, like, let's say, mental health, yoga sessions.
Because as I said, the overall aim is is not just the technical area of fiber, it's the nontechnicalities as well. Also, as the world open up, if there are in person conferences, I'm really looking forward to attend them with my circle. I'm I'm really looking forward. And I'm really excited because there are few coming up.
We are also planning to few of us are interested. The other thing is I'm also planning to get, like, Shruti also here if we have a conference and other members from India and Africa who are out of our, circle and bring them. So our next follow-up, we have a board also. So as we have scaled, we have an advisory board now in place.
We have close to, like, twelve people. We have six aerials we have started off with because now we know we we have to concretely focus on different different things. We have to focus on academic research, job opportunities. We have to focus on student cell as well.
Because students who are in college or let's say students who are in school, who want to pursue engineering. Because now we have after your school, we have direct engineering courses for cybersecurity.
So how to make more women and more students basically aware around it. So we are, like, we are planning to open a student cell soon in twenty twenty two, registering it as a nonprofit, planning to meet our local members more in person.
One good thing happened last week was three of, like, two of the members, they came to my home, we met, and it was an out of the world experience. We had never met. Okay? So we had never met, and both of them, they came to my home.
And it we have known each other, like, either. They never felt like, oh my god. I'm in this person for the very first time. So the bond that we had created virtually over this pandemic has turned into such an amazing friendship.
We have I have never met Shruti. I have met someone. I used to work with someone, but I've never met Shruti.
But our bond has become so flawless and our understanding.
I think this is something I'm planning to get more strong, meet more of members, meet people like you in conferences, like, probably representing our circle there. So that's that's the vision for twenty twenty two.
For sure. Well, you let me know which conferences you're interested in. I'll, I'll submit a talk request so that we can all be in the same same place at the same time.
Soman, if people are interested in joining, what would what advice would you give them?
To join our circle, I would say don't think anything. If you wanna excel more, if you think that you want yourself to like, at the end of the year, when you look back to yourself and you wanna see certain changes in yourself, I would say communities and coming down to our circle, I'll be a little biased that, we actually think of a platform. We actually think of a circle, which we always wanted to be part of or which we always thought of that we would bring it up like that. And if something we have set up, we would want you to gently, you know, DM any of us, any of us.
And we'll just let you know how you can be in our circle and how can we be more, you know, active there. What things you know, you you telling us that I want to do x y z things. We are there. We will connect you to channels there, and we'll let you excel in those portions.
We'll try our level best.
Make you see people. So it's best to join us. Connect with us. Connect on the website either.
Either ways we're okay. Email us. Anything. Everything is there on the website. So it's we're we're really looking forward to more new people, interacting with more new people because that really excites us to bring up more opportunity, talent, and, you know, use it with other Circle members who can benefit and, you know, vice versa.
So that's pretty much it.
Excellent. Well, Shruti, it sounds like this is a group for people with with hungry minds.
What if what if they're, kind of shy and quiet? Do will will they still feel comfortable there participating?
Of course. It this is. And one thing that I believe in if they're going to join, like, if they join our circle, the first thing that we don't ask them to go and participate, go and speak some speak something about yourself. We don't do that.
We start with our own stories. We start sharing our stories, some other members who have become comfortable, and then we tell them that how we came out of it. We are not expecting them to, you know, just, come out of their comfort zone and start speaking everything. But we are there. We they if they don't want to be like, we we we do approach some of the members who wants to speak because we do want them to participate actively.
So if we see that they are they are on the Slack maybe or they are in the Google Groups, we see the, them replying to our mails or messages, but then never speaking anything in the meetups. So we do talk to them personally, and then we ask them what, like, what do they want if they have any kind of problem, if they want to discuss anything. And then we make or make comfortable enough so that they can come up with their some stories that they feel or because of the reasons that they're scared of. So we we we're trying to encourage them, inspire them to move forward because, ultimately, they will have to communicate.
If they are in this domain, they will have to improve their networking. They have to talk to different people. It will be difficult. I know, but it is not impossible.
You can always come out of your comfort zone and you can start speaking with people slowly and the members. It is a closed group for now, and the members are really very nice to each other. So they can start speaking to each other gradually. And slowly, they will come out of the comfort zone, and they that would help them in different conferences maybe.
Terrific. Terrific. We're we're running out of time for for today. But, Asda, I wanna give you the final word.
What what else do we need to to communicate with people to encourage them to be part of of what you have going on?
Thank you so much.
Last thing that I would like to say is, like, if you really want to see yourself grow, we are trying our hard to bring you all kind of learnings, like, through academic research, through certifications.
We are also soon starting off with a learning program where we can help people like write CFPs, like how to write good CFPs, how to like like present in conferences. So like mock presentations, mock CFPs, and different types of criterias of learning. Also, one of the thing that I would like to highlight here is not only we are promoting our circle, to our circle, we are promoting various communities as well. So we have always let our circle members know, like, hey.
We are part of multiple communities. Why not you? You if you wanna join this community, if we are a member, we make sure we give them like, if there is a specific member who's leading a community, some different community, we give them the chance to present so that our members can also contribute there. So if you plan to join our circle, it's it's not about us only.
It's about you, your growth, your development, and how you can not only become part of us, but how you can become part of various communities across the world.
Excellent. Well, I this has been a delightful chat. I really appreciate, and I value what you're doing to help others really feel comfortable in the cybersecurity world. I know it's not easy, and and so having other other people to to talk to, it just seems like a a worthwhile effort, and I appreciate you doing it. So thank you so much for coming and to join me today. And hopefully, in next season, we can get an update, hear hear what's going on next. I would love to have you back one day.
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Alright. You take care. We'll talk to you again.
Thank you. Bye bye.
Thank you for joining us again here on the SecurityMetrics podcast. I hope that you enjoyed that as much as I did. We're gonna make sure that that the links to join this leaning circle are in our notes. If you liked what you heard, if you liked what you saw, because we do this on YouTube.
I don't know if you guys knew that. And on our website, there's a video one if you wanna see and or there's the audio one if you were purchased audio. But wherever you are, please like, please share it because I know there's a lot of people that would find value in the the topics that we have here. And, yeah.
Subscribe. All of those things. Take care.
Thanks for watching. To watch more episodes of SecurityMetrics podcast, click on the box on the left. If you prefer to listen to this podcast, it's available on all your favorite podcast platforms. See you on the slopes.
.svg)
